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Rachel Maddow Calls out Obama on Indefinite Detention

In a recent speech Obama stood on the shoulders of the Bush/Cheney Aministration’s past Constitutional/human rights violations and outlined an “appropriate legal regime” built around pre-crime, unconvicted indefinite detentions that are “consistent with our values and our Constitution.” Which Constitution is he referring to to? I must hand it to him, Obama is a master of double-speak.

As Maddow states, “this was a beautiful speech from President Obama today with patriotic, moving, even poetic language about the rule of law and the Constitution, and one of the most radical approaches for defying the Constitution that we have ever heard made to the American people.”

Also recommended is Glenn Greenwald’s article on Friday exposing the Facts and myths about Obama’s preventive detention proposal. Greenwald writes:

It’s important to be clear about what “preventive detention” authorizes. It does not merely allow the U.S. Government to imprison people alleged to have committed Terrorist acts yet who are unable to be convicted in a civilian court proceeding. That class is merely a subset, perhaps a small subset, of who the Government can detain. Far more significant, “preventive detention” allows indefinite imprisonment not based on proven crimes or past violations of law, but of those deemed generally “dangerous” by the Government for various reasons (such as, as Obama put it yesterday, they “expressed their allegiance to Osama bin Laden” or “otherwise made it clear that they want to kill Americans”). That’s what “preventive” means: imprisoning people because the Government claims they are likely to engage in violent acts in the future because they are alleged to be “combatants.”

Once known, the details of the proposal could — and likely will — make this even more extreme by extending the “preventive detention” power beyond a handful of Guantanamo detainees to anyone, anywhere in the world, alleged to be a “combatant.” After all, once you accept the rationale on which this proposal is based — namely, that the U.S. Government must, in order to keep us safe, preventively detain “dangerous” people even when they can’t prove they violated any laws — there’s no coherent reason whatsoever to limit that power to people already at Guantanamo, as opposed to indefinitely imprisoning with no trials all allegedly “dangerous” combatants, whether located in Pakistan, Thailand, Indonesia, Western countries and even the U.S.

…For those asserting that there are dangerous people who have not yet been given any trial and who Obama can’t possibly release, how do you know they are “dangerous” if they haven’t been tried? Is the Government’s accusation enough for you to assume it’s true?

…As former Prime Minister John Major put it in opposing the expansion to 42 days:

It is hard to justify: pre-charge detention in Canada is 24 hours; South Africa, Germany, New Zealand and America 48 hours; Russia 5 days; and Turkey 7½ days.

By rather stark and extreme contrast, Obama is seeking preventive detention powers that are indefinite — meaning without any end, potentially permanent. There’s no time limit on the “preventive detention.” Compare that power to the proposal that caused such a political storm in Britain and what these other governments are empowered to do. The suggestion that indefinite preventive detention without charges is some sort of common or traditional scheme is clearly false.

…Traditional “POWs” are ones picked up during an actual military battle, on a real battlefield, wearing a uniform, while engaged in fighting. The potential for error and abuse in deciding who was a “combatant” was thus minimal. By contrast, many of the people we accuse in the “war on terror” of being “combatants” aren’t anywhere near a “battlefield,” aren’t part of any army, aren’t wearing any uniforms, etc. Instead, many of them are picked up from their homes, at work, off the streets. In most cases, then, we thus have little more than the say-so of the U.S. Government that they are guilty, which is why actual judicial proceedings before imprisoning them is so much more vital than in the standard POW situation.

…Giving trials to people only when you know for sure, in advance, that you’ll get convictions is not due process. Those are called “show trials.” In a healthy system of justice, the Government gives everyone it wants to imprison a trial and then imprisons only those whom it can convict. The process is constant (trials), and the outcome varies (convictions or acquittals).

Obama is saying the opposite: in his scheme, it is the outcome that is constant (everyone ends up imprisoned), while the process varies and is determined by the Government (trials for some; military commissions for others; indefinite detention for the rest). The Government picks and chooses which process you get in order to ensure that it always wins. A more warped “system of justice” is hard to imagine.

…Digby said it best:

…The mere fact that we are doing this makes us less safe because the complete lack of faith we show in our constitution and our justice systems is what fuels the idea that this country is weak and easily terrified. There is no such thing as a terrorist suspect who is too dangerous to be set free. They are a dime a dozen, they are all over the world and for every one we lock up there will be three to take his place. There is not some finite number of terrorists we can kill or capture and then the “war” will be over and the babies will always be safe. This whole concept is nonsensical.

The sheep better wake up.

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3 Responses

  1. Bad cop/good cop. Dog and pony show for the masses.

    An Above Top Secret Forum Member (ATS) asked:

    “Was the 911 ritual the creation of a star gate?”

    One claiming to be a member of a social memory complex known as Lucifer (Hidden_Hand) replied:

    “No, it was a Ritual Human Sacrifice. That, and the obvious catalyst for the so called “War on Terror”.”

    There is a much bigger picture here than most are willing to reckon.

    I will not be returning to this post. Therefore, if you have comment regarding mine, please use the Contact Us on my website,

    Thank You,

    Travis

  2. Astonishing, absolutely astonishing!

  3. [...] Rachel Maddow Calls out Obama on Indefinite Detention CIVIL JURY TRIALS – CHALLENGES FOR CAUSE – JURORS’ PRIVACY Manitoba’s judicial system verging on disrepute? Greenwald: Understanding “prolonged detention” 3 of Canada’s Top News Stories relating to the court, justice [...]

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